Posts by raymond frantz

10

Pella

by peacefulpete in

this short thread addresses the often-repeated legend that christians fled jerusalem to pella and escaped the destruction of jerusalem.

the legend is based upon two 4th century comments.. .

the whole body, however, of the church at jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city to a certain town beyond the jordan called pella.

raymond frantz

So based on your research @peacefulpete , do you agree with the following?

Epiphanius wrote **Weights and Measures** in the late 4th century, approximately 300 years after the events of the Roman siege of Jerusalem (70 CE). His account adds the detail of an angelic revelation, which is not mentioned in earlier sources like **Eusebius of Caesarea** (*Ecclesiastical History*, 3.5).

Epiphanius' account may reflect a theological interpretation or later tradition rather than a historical fact. The earlier and more widely accepted tradition (e.g., Eusebius) attributes the Christians' departure to a divine warning or prophetic revelation without mentioning an angel.

The claim that an angel instructed the Christians to leave Jerusalem comes specifically from **Epiphanius of Salamis** in *Weights and Measures*. However, it should be treated with caution as it is a later embellishment not found in earlier, more historically grounded sources.

10

Pella

by peacefulpete in

this short thread addresses the often-repeated legend that christians fled jerusalem to pella and escaped the destruction of jerusalem.

the legend is based upon two 4th century comments.. .

the whole body, however, of the church at jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city to a certain town beyond the jordan called pella.

raymond frantz

It would seem to me that both accounts are correct and do not contradict themselves ,that Christians had already created an outpost in Pella and at the same time the ones remaining in Jerusalem prior to 66AD where told by an angel to leave. Also, is this your personal research or do you borrow from a book and if so which one? Thank you

31

Wythenshawe Kingdom Hall - Sold

by AdamCzarnobay in

jw
friends

i was slightly surprised to see that wythenshawe hall has been sold.

it's now a mosque.

this one had an attached flat where the co and his wife lived, i wonder what accommodation they put them in these days..

raymond frantz

Unbelievable!!! That was my old kingdom hall from 2001-2003 and right next to the Northerden Circuit Assembly Hall. This is not the only ex Christian Church to be converted to a mosque in the area , same thing happened in the nearby Heald Green , I think a Methodist Church was turned to a mosque too. Nothing surprises me, uncontrolled immigration the past 20 years have turned Britain to a communist caliphate!

26

God or Satan?

by peacefulpete in

the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).

the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.

here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.

raymond frantz

@sea breeze, correct, I wish more exjws did their due diligence on this matter rather than relying on weak modern "scholarship"

26

God or Satan?

by peacefulpete in

the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).

the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.

here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.

raymond frantz

The eatliest "scholar" was Hermann Samuel Reimarus (1694–1768) in the 18th century who explicitly rejected the traditional understanding that the Gospels were written by their acclaimed authors. As is a common practice amongst ALL historians , they take the earliest historical references as authority so is the case here. I believe the first Christian Fathers that lived 50 to 200 years after the writing of the Gospels from the opinion of a scholar that lived 1600 years after the event.

26

God or Satan?

by peacefulpete in

the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).

the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.

here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.

raymond frantz

Why do you believe this nonsense? Who is the earliest "scholar" to promote this preposterous idea that the writers of the Gospels were not the disciples of Christ? And was not the original post about Christ being Satan?

26

God or Satan?

by peacefulpete in

the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).

the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.

here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.

raymond frantz

Come on... the difference is obvious, John the disciple of Christ vs some unknown non Christian Jewish writer. Can you please elaborate more on the point you're trying make without the questionable references ?

26

God or Satan?

by peacefulpete in

the theme of my recent comment in another thread demonstrated how in some circles the 'word/logos' had become understood to be implied within ot texts that mention an angel or destroyer (in the case of ex 12).

the comment got no response so i'll repost it now as a springboard for a further observation:.

here's another example of the extreme personification of the logos/word from the wisdom of solomon (approx.

raymond frantz

You are relying on the book Wisdom of Solomon to make the case that Jesus is Satan this is problematic as the book is not included in Jewish or Modern Bibles and for a good reason, the book was written by a Jewish scholar familiar with Greek culture, likely in Alexandria, Egypt, during the Hellenistic period (between the 2nd century BCE and 1st century, the book was written in Greek, not Hebrew, and contains sophisticated Greek philosophical ideas and expressions.

34

Why Did God Create Us?

by Sea Breeze in

jesus is the creator god, but why did he create us?

what say you?.

raymond frantz

First of all Jesus didn't create man but God with the aid of Jesus,

IF YOU DONT BELIEVE in the Bible many theories have been offered over the years: evolution, ancient alien theory, panspermia etc. In that line of thought we have no purpose and no meaning as previous mentioned.

IF YOU BELIEVE in the Bible then the answer is quoted in Genesis 1:26-27: “Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky...’ So God created mankind in His own image, in the image of God He created them; male and female He created them.”

God is a Creator and created a being in his image to look after this planet because He can, like He created angels before that.

Now if you want to dig deeper, there are many rabbit holes you can follow and the following is just pure speculation based in Scripture. I believe one of the reasons we were created is for some of us, only the ones that get raptured, to replace Satan and 1/3 of the angels that fell from Grace.

While the Bible doesn’t explicitly state that humanity was created to replace fallen angels, several verses suggest that believers in Christ will occupy significant roles in God’s eternal kingdom. These roles may parallel or even surpass those held by angels before the fall:

Judges of Angels:1 Corinthians 6:3: “Do you not know that we will judge angels?”

This verse implies that redeemed humanity will have authority over angels in God’s eternal kingdom. It suggests a reversal of the hierarchy seen in creation, where angels initially held a superior role to humans.

Heavenly Worshipers:Revelation 7:9-10 describes a great multitude of redeemed humans worshiping God before His throne, a role previously associated with angels (e.g., Isaiah 6:3).

Adopted as Sons and Daughters:Hebrews 1:14 explains that angels are “ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation,” indicating that humanity, as heirs of salvation, has a unique and exalted status in God’s plan.

3026

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

raymond frantz

Yes he has been on Joe Rogan's show too